Dragon Ball: GT Vs Super: Multiversal Tournaments and All Hell Breaking Loose!

So here it is, the long awaited part 3 of my Dragon Ball Super Vs GT Comparison! The other 2 parts can be found on the side bar. Go on, I can wait. Sorry about the wait, but I'll discuss that a bit more in detail in the next section below. I just wanted to point out how crazy it is that from last time when I posted part 2 to when I have posted part 3 we have had an announcement AND release date set for an English release of not only Dragon Ball Super but the Buu arc of Kai as well! AND we started getting Super Simulcast by Crunchy Roll! Well, let's look at the Super 17 Saga and the Universe 6 Tournament Saga!

So before I jump in, let's talk shop. SUPER sorry about the delay, guys. ...no pun intended. So I finished Super 17 like 2 days after I posted the last one, and planned on jumping into Universe 6 not long after that. It got busy at work so it was about a week later and I was about to start watching... when I got news that Crunchy Roll was about to sub Super semi-officially. I say Semi-officially because while official, these are definitely not the final Subs. I mean, Supreme Kai-Sama? HA! Point is, I felt I should wait until after the Universe 6 Arc was subbed on Crunchy Roll. Then came problem 2: my job. See, I work at Best Buy. Usually, no problem. But when the episodes are being released during the busiest shopping weekend of the year... yeah, kinda had to pull rank there. Then I had to recover a bit because of the long hours. Then I actually watched it... only to realize that I already forgot most of what happened in Super 17 so I watched it again...only to constantly doze off because... well, we'll talk about that... Point is I'm sorry, next post should be sooner, and I may actually hate Super 17 after all this...

DRAGON BALL GT: SUPER 17 SAGA; EPISODES 41-47

Wow, this will be a bit short. Shortest Saga in Dragon Ball, depending on where you break things off. Regardless, our story starts with Goku losing another tournament...but that was a fun, well executed "filler" episode that doesn't tie into the story at all. But long live Papayaman. Anyways, our story REALLY starts when Gero meets up with Myuu in Hell and they decide to make a fully Synthetic version of Android 17 because Hell is well known for having advanced technology and materials. I don't know, maybe it's like a prison and they're entitled to a certain amount of things... anyways, they somehow use this new "Hellfighter 17" (Should totally be a band's name, by the way...) to control the REAL Android 17. First he beats up Trunks because no matter the timeline, robots hate Trunks. Then The 2 17s somehow use their combined energies from the same area but different locations to open Hell, and to enact the strangest and most convoluted revenge plot I've ever seen. The first step is to have all the old bad guys escape Hell and wreak havoc on Earth, which would somehow cause Goku to be drawn to Hell to check up on Freeza and Cell, where they will trap Goku to be Tickle tortured for eternity while Gero and Myuu will rule...Earth, I guess, by combining the two 17s and maybe 18 to form an unstoppable machine mutant thing that they think they could control. It's a weird plot. Well, Myuu betrays Gero, and Super 17, the being created when 17 fuses with 17, betrays Myuu. Oh, and Krillin dies again. Forgot to mention that. Also forgot to mention that grass is green and the sky is blue. Well, Piccolo moves to Hell to help Goku escape, Goku and 18 team up to defeat Super 17, we clumsily rush to a finish, and then Dragon Balls cause weird smoke and an odd Dragon pops up. ...the End!

DRAGON BALL SUPER: UNIVERSE 6 TOURNAMENT SAGA: EPISODES28-46

So Beerus has a brother named Champa. He looks like me. Champa wants to try some of Earth's food in his Universe, but his Earth has gone bye-bye, so they decide to hold a Tournament between the 2 universes to decide who gets to keep Earth. Oh, and the ultimate, all powerful, wish granting, ultra orbs known as Super Dragon Balls, but that's secondary when it comes to our food! ...I love Beerus and Champa. So...uh... they have the tournament. And it looks like Universe 7 will lose. But they win. Yay! And then Beerus wishes Universe 6's Earth back with the Super Dragon Balls. Then some delightful "Filler". Then Purple Vegeta! ...NEXT!

ANIMATION

So, Super REALLY steps up their game here! And GT actually has some wonky animation with Freeza and Cell! So this time it's...still GT. Sorry, Super, but still below the par... But nice improvement.

SOUND

Again, Super has gone above what they were at. The moment that Chouzetsu Dynamic kicks in during the Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken was brilliant! But then that darn song that haunts my ever waking nightmares has to be brought back. LET IT DIE! PLEASE! So on GT's side of things, business as usual. Though no really cool moments... so you know what? Due to the epicness of the Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken Dragon Ball Super wins this category for once! I never believed in you, Super! Way to prove me wrong!

STORY

So I've always had this one issue when it came to Dragon Ball Tournaments as stories. No, not with the Tournaments themselves, they're awesome! No, my issue has always been with their classification. What I mean is that most people label Tournaments as Sagas, but that never made sense to me. A saga implies a large, grand story that moves up and down, usually to either gather all Dragon Balls or to defeat the main villain. Or both! Tournaments, however, last 1 day canonically, are usually relatively stakeless, and don't usually have a main villain. I mean, the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai is really the only exception on that front, and even then Goku treated it like a standard Tournament. To me, the 3 tournaments in Dragon Ball OG were more bookends to the proper sagas, used to help demonstrate how Goku grew as a fighter AND a person, ultimately culminating into the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai where Goku both won, the first and only time he did so, but defeated the stronger reincarnation of King Piccolo. Well, now we have a tournament again, but this time... yeah, it kinda doesn't feel like a saga...sort of. Look, I LOVE these episodes, but they aren't really a gripping story. You want the real story here? Beerus fights with brother, beats him in contest, feels bad, does nice thing for him. That's this saga in a nutshell. Super 17, on the other hand, has a bit too MUCH story, at least for the amount of episodes given. This saga is short, but they threw in the opening up of Hell, the return of Freeza AND Cell, Krillin dying again, character wrap up with 17 and 18, ect. It bit off WAY more than it could chew. Still, though, as pure stories go... I think I have to give this one to GT. The episodes aren't really paced right, but the presence of a real villain helps, in my opinion. I feel like I have a dirty taste in my mouth after saying all that...

CHARACTERS

So GT has Everyone escape hell...and get wiped out in a montage with little to no dialogue. Believable? Yes. Good Character development? Not at all! Super 17 as a villain is pretty terrible, with only a brief moment of character development showing before dying. Krillin dying and 18's reaction WAS excellent, though. Oh, and Piccolo's response to being in Hell forever was great! But on a whole, not wonderful. Super, on the other hand, created some of the BEST new character! Hit is mysterious and powerful, an excellent challenge for Goku. Monaka is the new Mr. Satan, and I love it! Champa and Vados are great counter-points to Beerus and Whis, and excellent characters in their own right! Botamo and Metallo are...funny. And Cabba ( Or Kabe or Kyabe or whatever you want to call him...) is an excellent addition to show off a new kind of Saiyan. Oh, and Frost. He was there. There was some EXCELLENT character development moments in this arc as well. Cabba's Super Saiyan Transformation, Beerus' wish, Chi-Chi worrying about Goku, Buu deciding to fight solely for Mr. Satan to get a wish, ect. The list goes on and on. All in All, Super's characters far surpasses GT's.

FINAL THOUGHTS

These two arcs both had some great moments, but ultimately the Super 17 Saga just failed to deliver. In the end, Super's story of two universe's meeting to have a semi-friendly martial arts match, while pretty simple, leaves a much greater impact than you'd expect from the story structure. Also, the Super 17 saga was too overblown for it's own good. They tried to do more stuff in a much smaller amount of episodes, but ultimately it just made the whole saga feel longer than it really is. Super wins again.

Next time we close things off and see if Super will take the win or if GT can cause a tie. It'll be stories of evil dragons brought forth because of Dragon Ball misuse and crazed gods brought forth because of time travel misuse. Point is, our heroes suck at their jobs.

I am The R2 Dude, and this is The R2 View!

Dragon Ball: GT Vs Super: Blueberry Saiyans and Egg-Laying Parasites!

Well, here we are again! Part 2 of our 4 part comparison of  GT and Super. If you missed part 1...well, you're already on my blog so just click the link on the side for part 1. Duh! So if part 1 taught us anything it's that...I can NOT spell Mistare Fusion's name correctly. Sorry, dude. Really love your work. Well, if it taught us TWO things it's that both series were pretty similar last time. Really, the only reason Super edged out was because it reminded me of the much better film version of Battle of Gods, and that's a terrible thing... But Battle of Gods IS my favorite Dragon Ball film, so there may be some bias there. This time around, things may be different since we're essentially adapting Resurrection "F" on the Super side, and way too many things to count on the GT side. Well, let's start!

...actually, before we do that, let's talk about some behind the scene stuffs on my end. I finally received the final volume of the GT singles I needed, so I can start Super Android 17 immediately. I wanted to use the DVD singles released in the early to mid 2000's as opposed to the Green Bricks because the DVD singles includes the next time segments. Vital? No, but I want to try and be as fair to both sides as possible. I also wanted to discuss subtitles, because I want to be as transparent as I can be. On the GT side of things I have nothing to worry about, because I'm watching the official Funimation DVDs with translations by Steve Simmons, so I know they are very accurate. ...though there was a funny error on the subtitle side when Pan greets "Papa and Uncle Gohan". That made me laugh. Super is where things get tricky. As of this post, there is NO official English or American release of Super, so I have to rely on fan subs. Let me make this clear: the moment that Funimation starts selling Super officially I am buying it. Support the official release and all that. My problem comes in that I can not have the same confidence that Super is as accurate as GT is. Because I wasn't aware of the bad subs floating around until recently, I rechecked what I've been watching. Good news on that front, the subs I've had both arcs have been Dragon Team, who is the most accurate. Bad news is that from what I've heard they're getting farther behind, and so I may have to switch to a less reliable subber by the time I get to Trunks. But as far as I could tell, all of Champa SHOULD be Dragon Team, but I'll let you know if something changes. All right then, let's compare us some Dragon Balls!

DRAGON BALL GT: BABY SAGA: EPISODES 23-40

So our story continues when Baby immediately tries to kill Goku, Trunks, and Pan 2 or 3 times. ...wow, he doesn't waste any time, does he... Well, eventually Baby realizes that Goku MAY be a tad bit strong, so he sneaks his way to Earth, and immediately takes everyone over. How? By laying eggs inside earthlings, of course! Soon, Bulma uses her technical expertise for Baby, Gohan and Goten become Baby's personal body guards, Chi-Chi and Videl...uh... cook food for him, I think. And Krillin... deals with the same crap he always does. ...Poor Krillin. Well, Goku and Co. finally track down all 7 Dragon Balls and return to Earth, giving them over to Dende and Popo so that Earth can be saved! ...that doesn't go as planned... Soon it is painfully obvious that Goku is in trouble. CHI-CHI WON'T GIVE HIM ANY FOOD! Oh, and everyone on the planet is trying to kill him. Even Trunks is taken over! Baby, controlling a horrifically designed Vegeta, then kills Goku! ...series over? No, of course not! Goku was saved by Kabito-Kai! ...until he dropped him. Whoops. But Goku can escape purgatory if he...wins a board game. ...meanwhile, Baby wishes the Tsufurian planet BACK into existence, and begins moving everyone onto it so that they can travel on it and take over the entire UNIVERSE!!!! So our resistance against Baby consists of a ten year old girl, her aging and balding grandfather, a fat and pink blob, and a young teenager from Dragon World's equivalent of Africa. ...we may be screwed. But no, soon Goku returns, and with a tail again! ...he then turns into a giant golden ape and starts attacking everything. Whoops. But Pan reaches into the rational side of Goku, and he emerges as the all new, all powerful Super Saiyan 4! ...he then gets beaten to a pulp! Well, ok, not quite. See, Bulma helps Baby become a Golden Great Ape himself, and THEN Super Saiyan 4 is treated like a weakling! But through the power of teamwork, in that everyone gives Goku power and then steps back so they don't get hurt, Goku gets Baby out of Vegeta and finally destroys him once and for all! ...and then the Earth explodes! ...whoops. But Dragon Balls, wishes, yadda yadda, and everything is back to normal. OR IS IT?!

DRAGON BALL SUPER: RESURRECTION F SAGA: EPISODES 15-27

So after some awesome filler episodes to set up Goku and Vegeta training with Whis on Beerus' planet, the remnants of Freeza's army arrives on Earth to use the Dragon Balls Pilaf and his gang have collected. They do so, and bring Freeza back to life! Freeza is back at his original power, no cybernetics needed! And so, Freeza, filled with rage, and obsessed with defeating Goku once and for all, decides to train for the first time in his life! But who wants to watch him train?! We skip 4 months ahead to when Freeza is heading to earth, but Jaco arrives ahead of time to warn Bulma first! Bulma does the sensible thing and calls Krillin! Krillin then does the sensible thing and calls Master Roshi! ...Anyone else think these people may not be taking this seriously? Well, soon the dream team of Roshi, Krillin, Tenshinhan, Piccolo, and Gohan arrive to fight the forces of Freeza! ...and Jaco and Bulma because why not? Oh, and then Gotenks shows up...before immediately defusing. Whoops. But hey! Ginyu is back! And he is...camp. Really, REALLY camp. ...I love Dragon Ball. Well, Freeza gets tired of waiting and starts torturing Gohan because of how much he reminds him of Goku. However, Piccolo jumps in the way of the killing blast, saving Gohan's life at the cost of his own. This fires Gohan up, who powers up enough so that Goku and Vegeta can finally reach them...before collapsing because he is so weak now. Well, Goku fights Freeza, both show off their new forms, Freeza cheats, and then Vegeta curb-stomps Freeza, until Freeza blows up the earth. ...whoops. Luckily, Whis can bring Goku back in time far enough to take out Freeza first. And so, Goku finally kills Freeza, who must once again suffer for eternity in Hell. ...oh, and Piccolo's back, but we didn't need to see that...

ANIMATION

...So the animation is generally better in Super now... Sort of... Ok, yeah. The animation in Super is still pretty bad. ESPECIALLY in the main fight. THE MAIN FIGHT! Honestly, while the Character designs, especially Baby, in GT was pretty ugly, the animation is A LOT better. I get that you have a small budget for Super, Toei (Though I don't get WHY), but COME ON! This Saga is all about ONE fight, and you don't allocate any money for it?! UGH! So yeah, GT wins here.

SOUND

Well, this is interesting. The music in Super has gotten better over all! Except, for some reason, THEY HAVE TO USE THAT STUPID, TERRIBLE SONG IN LIKE EVERY EPISODE IN THE BEGINNING PART OF THE SAGA!!! Sorry, but that song is just AWFUL! Trust me, you know the song. But in general the music IS improved. ...but GT is still better. Ending song wise, Starring Star is great and Light Pink is pretty good, but Don't You See was kinda bland for me. But again, the score is king here, so GT takes it once again.

STORY

Let's start with Super this time. Once again, an adaptation, this time of Resurrection F. My thoughts of the movie are generally positive for a stand-alone film, but kinda bland story wise due to it's nature AS a film. So I was actually exited for this Saga! ...Yeah, they played it WAY too safe here. Don't get me wrong, I actually like the stuff they did add quite a bit, but it was NOT enough. Ginyu is back?! AWESOME! Will he play a major part? No, because the movie didn't have him. Krillin having a big dramatic moment of fear, just to realize that even a little out of practice he is still far stronger than he was on Namek? I love it when my favorite character gets some love! Will this add anything to the later fight, and maybe have him go against Freeza even?! ...of course not, because the movie didn't do it. Toei, I OWN the movie. If I want to watch the movie, I'll watch the darn movie! You had a chance to expand this story! Show the training Freeza did, and contrast that with Goku and Vegeta's training. Have more fighters like Yamcha and Chiaotzu show up to help, and maybe even have them go up against Freeza together for a bit! I am so mixed here because I like all the new things added, but I crave more of them! Take the scene where the earth explodes. In the film it explodes and then quickly undone. While that happens in the series too, here they take the time to show some other characters right before death. Videl comforting Pan, Mr. Satan and Buu napping, 18 playing with Marron, and the surprising Tear-Jerker of Dr. Brief and his wife sitting together as the world ends. It's surprising just how effective these little scenes are. But they are corrected SO quickly that it doesn't really have time to set! Maybe if that was how they ended an episode it would have worked better, I don't know... Oh, but Gohan at the end deciding to start training with Piccolo again to protect his family, that was awesome. Oh, and speaking of Piccolo, he dies in GT as well! Except, that GT had only one previous appearing before his death, which cheapens the effect. Is it still heart wrenching? Oh yeah, especially the way Gohan reacted to it. But it feels like they brought him in JUST to die...but more on that in the characters section. The Baby saga is a weird mish-mash of Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans, Cell, Buu, and even Garlic Jr. Baby was created like Cell, with a plan to destroy the Saiyans like in Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans, has a similar appearance and abilities as Buu, and controls the entire planet like Garlic Jr! Yet, surprisingly, it kinda works. Goku returning home to find everyone turned against him, only to find out that he is too weak to save them, is great. That scene where he sees Bulma, calls her name, and then Bulma sneers and tells him to not talk like their friends, always gets me. And of course, we have to talk transformations. I didn't talk about Super Saiyan God much last time because it's kind of unimportant. Yes, it was the driving force of the story, but it was a one time power-up that was absorbed by Goku's normal self, so unimportant in the grand scheme of things. This time, however, we have 2 VERY important transformations: Super Saiyan 4 and Super Saiyan Blue...er...Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan...er...Super Saiyan with the Power of a Super Saiyan God...whatever you want to call it. I'll stick with Blue. Oh, and Pimped out Freeza... but who cares. I love the Super Saiyan 4 transformation, especially in the way it is weaved into the story and characters. Pan has to reach her Grandpa's rational side when he's a Golden Great Ape, which only happens when Goku sees a picture of Pan as a toddler and notices modern Pan crying. It's just...so good. In Super, however, we get hardly any explanation ABOUT the Blue form, and even less for Freeza's Golden form. Essentially, Blue is introduced as a God form without the ceremony needed so that Goku can easily fight stronger and stronger opponents. ...that's a HORRIBLE reason to just throw in a new transformation! I could go on about it, but it's clear to me that GT has the better story...somehow.

CHARACTERS

Well, I once again feel mixed feelings of mixedness. Super brought in Jaco and Ginyu, and had Roshi and Tenshinhan go into battle again! But GT had evil versions of our favorite characters, and small cameos from old favorites like Eighter and Upa. Hmm... both had Piccolo dying, but neither delivered fully. GT had a very emotional and heart filled death with no build up, but Super had a meaningless and easily resolved death that had some strong emotional effects on Gohan. ...GT actually remembered about Uub and had him merge with Buu, but Super brough back Ginyu, and tied up that loose end from Z. ...Kind of a tie, really. However, I'm actually going to give it to GT, mostly because of that great Super Saiyan 4 Transformation that actually ties into multiple character threads. That and Evil Bulma cracks me up.

FINAL THOUGHTS

Wow, clear winner this time, and it's GT. ...WAIT, WHAT?! Honestly, I didn't expect that at ALL going in. I remember not liking the Baby Saga at all when I first watched GT. Maybe it had something to do with the dub, maybe it has something to do with lowered expectations, but I really enjoyed watching it this time! And it's not that Super did it bad exactly... but they tied WAY to much into the original movie's story. But the problem is that what works in a movie doesn't always work in a series format... and maybe we'll figure that out again next time! ...clever segway is clever.

Next time, all Hell breaks loose, Universes collide, and Freeze returns! ...again. ...in both series, basically. ...why is Freeza coming back so popular?

I am The R2 Dude, and this is The R2 View!